Wednesday, April 7, 2010

McVeigh

Whatever your thoughts on the Oklahoma City bombing (small conspiracy or large conspiracy), I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Tim McVeigh was a retarded douchebag, right?

Well, maybe not. Kurt Nimmo of Infowars doesn't seem to think McVeigh was all that bad. Just a patsy, you might say. Except he was a patsy who freely admitted his guilt and showed zero remorse for the murder of 168 strangers, 19 of them preschool children. Nimmo apparently wants us to forget that part and focus solely on the unknown co-conspirators, including McVeigh's alleged FBI handlers. He thinks MSNBC's airing of McVeigh's confession, scheduled for the fifteenth anniversary of the bombing, is purely propagandistic, part of a larger effort to "set the stage for a coming false flag operation designed to take down the patriot movement in this country". (I don't think many Americans want to destroy the patriot movement; we just want the patriot movement to calm down, stop waving guns around literally and figuratively, and handle reality like sane adults. Is that too much to ask?)

As evidence of this plot to take down patriots, Nimmo points to the "outlandish allegations" against The Guardians of the Free Republics, a patriot group that recently sent a letter to each U.S. governor, asking him/her to resign from office. To read Nimmo's account, the Guardians simply sent requests to some politicians, and were unfairly accused of potentially inspiring others to violence.
The truth is a bit more complex. Yes, the Guardians seem to be a nonviolent and law-abiding group, but their March 31st letter ordered the 50 governors to resign within three days or "be removed". Before you go saying, "Wull that's not threatening at all!", pause and imagine getting a letter like this at your job. "Stop being a [your job title here] in three days or we'll stop you." Nonviolent? Yes. Creepy and menacing? Yes.

But I'm getting away from the point, here, which is this: Whether he was part of a larger conspiracy or not, and even though the ATF and FBI have done more than their fair share of dirty deeds, Timothy McVeigh was a killer and a white supremacist who tried to minimize his personal responsiblity by saying that the government "teaches by example". This must have been quite a blow to the relatives, peers, ministers, and mentors who also tried to teach McVeigh by example during his short life.
In trying to crack government conspiracies, let's not become apologists for guys like him.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

I understand that once, Tim Mcveigh was working at one of his rare menial jobs, and a co-worker mentioned something about 'porch-monkeys'... Mcveigh was startled by this slur...I don't remember McVeigh himself being any more racist than the next person, even if his associates might have been.

S.M. Elliott said...

He didn't strike me as an overtly racist person, but if you hang around with white supremacists and quote The Turner Diaries (even if you only liked it for the blowing-up-stuff parts), you're gonna get called a racist.

Anonymous said...

That Guardian letter was just a Fed inspired provocation. They do most of the bad stuff, not anyone else.

Anonymous said...

http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2001/09/11.html

Gore Vidal and Mcveigh

Anonymous said...

http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2001/09/11.html

Vidal and McVeigh

SME said...

Yes, I read Vidal's Vanity Fair piece. Again, McVeigh admitted his guilt and declined to name any of the umpteen other people allegedly involved in this mass murder. And no, I do not believe he was hypnoprogrammed or had a mind-controlling microchip implanted in his butt.

Anonymous said...

You Americans are pathetic, McVeigh saw the federales get out of control and he took action, while the Patriot Act should have created a hundred McVeighs, you stupid cowardly Americans just rolled over and took it. You have lost your rights, and you are taxed way higher than any Colonial ever was. If the Revolutionary War was needed, then logic demands that you act now to take back your government. But you are too weak to rise up, to scared and timid, oh gutless wonders! Your kids are fat and on ritilin, and your neurotic women are in charge of the men, American men have been totally emasculated by the courts and feminism,, while you hope and pray for a tweedle dee or tweedle dum to win an election and save you from yourself...most of you cannot even read a book, or walk a mile. When America collapses from unrepayable debts, the rest of us will cheer. Only McVeighs are worthy of any consideration or respect.

Can you imagine a cowering George Washington crying "Oh, no, someone might get hurt in this struggle, we'd all better pack it in and go home"

tshsmom said...

Anon, just HOW did McVeigh's murder of innocent people help his cause?

Anonymous said...

The deaths of those children was unfortunate... a public relations disaster....But notice that part of the motive for the bombing was revenge for Waco, where about 18 innocent children died. I think 19 children died in the Murrah building- here we see karma in action, perhaps. What goes around comes around...Mcveigh was trained as a soldier, and saw how the government waged war; he did nothing different. If he had bombed the building in the night, he would have instantly been transformed into a hero to a hundred million slothful and largely underserving Americans.

Anonymous said...

So, no, the bombing didnt really help his cause much. He needed a different route...

His lies to protect the others who helped him, even the ones who were government agents or infomers...he felt this was necessary, he knew he was going to fall and fall hard for this, he would not muddy the waters by dragging others into the pit. Andreas Strasmeyer remains a lead that ought to be re-examined- in part, the bombing was directed against the ATF, yet they were conveniently absent that morning, and the bombing jacked their budget, when it was about to plunge.
Always, its the same question- who benefits? Clinton sure did look quite 'presidential' when he really needed to....

Anonymous said...

I read the Nimmo article...which paints a nasty picture of the authorities involvement in murdering their own people.

McVeigh still in the military 18 months after the official timeline? The owner of that film in fear for his life?

You said your point was the individual culpability of Tim MvVeigh- granted, he has responsibity, but he's gone.
We should focus our fury now on the rogue government that kills its own, just to further an agenda. The evidence points to a larger conspiracy involving the government and the SPLC et al ....MSNBC will run the Tim McVeigh show, hosted by that insanely smiley anchor, miss whats her name... and yes, it is just anther attempt by the corporate media to demonize the patriot movement, to make them look like domestic terrorists, to race bait, and try to lump in tea partiers and just about anybody else who is opposed to Obama and his policies, when in reality we the people have had it with federal government over reach and being crushed under the iron boot of the major corporations.

Anonymous said...

Er, thats really 18 months before the bombing. I'm reading the info and I'm thinking , WTF...Mr. Bean captured McVeigh on film up in North Dakota, in a military base specializing in demolitions? When he supposedly wasn't in the military anymore...and Utah Judge Kimball issued a ruling in 2006 declaring that most of the bombers have eluded punishment, and McVeigh had fed informant confidants?
I hope at the least that this was just a sting operation that went bad, and not something more sinister. No ATF casualties points to the latter, though.

S.M. Elliott said...

To the 1st Anon after my last comment: I'll leave that up just so people will know what kind of ideas are out there among them.

McVeigh accomplished nothing. In fact, without him the Antiterrorism Act wouldn't have passed like a breeze, paving the way for the Patriot Act.

I don't like what went on at Waco, but Oklahoma City just made it worse. There's an ocean of difference between organized revolution and the kind of random, archaic violence perpetrated by those like McVeigh. Would Washington have blown up an occupied American building only partially connected to the British empire? Doubt it.

I need not point out that the Mt. Carmel families had the opportunity to send their children elsewhere before the raid, while Oklahoma City families had no such opportunity.

Nor do I need to point out that making a martyr-hero out of McVeigh, who quite probably was gullible or insane or otherwise mentally unsound, will not get the crime solved.

Anonymous said...

McVeighs dead and cannot harm me. The others who assisted him, the government agents, are still out there and they can kill me. Maybe I should avoid your downtowns...The whole point was to get the Anti terrorism Act passed, just as the point of 9-11 was to pass the Patriot Act, among other things.

S.M. Elliott said...

Don't run a sex cult in an armed compound and you should be reasonably safe, Anon. Particularly in Canadian downtown districts; nothing much happens in them.

Anonymous said...

"The heresies we should fear are the ones that can be confused with orthodoxy"

I think Borges said that, in 'Theologians'....

...with Mcveigh and Strassmeir, the spare unmatched leg found in the rubble, the whole alternative version... we have a heresy, to some, but an emerging orthodoxy to others.

The new heretics will be forced to flee and hide

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